This is the eighth article I have written as part of an ongoing debate with Mr. Adrian Thysse on the reasonableness of Christian faith.  It has been a while; I think I am the most inconsistent blogger in the western hemisphere, I apologize for that.

I am honored that you think my logic to be Lewisian. JPWSR is correct to not defend God, and I do not either. God knows, He doesn’t need my help. I am defending the belief in God as being reasonable. God is reasonable by virtue of being the supremely perfect being. He can be nothing else; what is unreasonable is certainly less perfect than what is reasonable.

I already addressed the genocide issue in my comment to “Evil in Society” but I’ll address it further here.

I believe people who take issue with the warfare in the Old Testament and how it was conducted have a flawed understanding of God and who He is. Life and death are in God’s hands. He is sovereign in the universe. The only reason that you and I are here, living, breathing, and having this debate is that God continues to will us both to live*. That is grace. We have no claim on God. We have no right to make any demands. All that we have is undeserved grace from God and this includes life and the continuation of life. If I die before I finish this sentence, it will be because God decided I had finished my mortal life and I could not justifiably complain because my life up to this point has been a gift. It makes no sense to say “God, you owe me more gifts!” God owes me nothing.

God owed the Canaanites nothing. He decided that their time had come, just the same as He has done for every other man, women, hyena, earthworm, virus, and oak tree in history. God did the Canaanites no injustice. On the contrary, God shed much grace on the Canaanites** by sustaining them as long as He did and even in killing them off (it seems likely) by preventing them from further degrading themselves.

Its interesting to me that people often point to the destruction of the Canaanites as evidence that God is unjust but not to Sodom or Gomorrah. The only difference that I can see is that in the case of Sodom and Gomorrah, the destruction was visibly an act of God, whereas in the case the Canaanites, God used the Israelites to accomplish the same thing. If God is who He says He is then there is no difference in the two cases.

After a thorough understanding of God’s sovereignty is established, the next question that comes up is often, “why does God allow evil at all?” Thank God He does, and don’t question your good fortune! If He did not allow evil then we would not be here at all. This Earth is filled with evil, you’re evil, and I’m evil. God allows evil because He is loving, merciful, and delights in giving us grace. We also know from the Bible that God will not continue to allow evil forever but that He will restore creation to what He intended it to be. This is further grace, for God is taking evil and undeserved people and restoring them (rather than destroying or punishing them) and allowing them to be part of His newly perfected creation.

The Bible is a love story and God is the greatest lover. Throughout the Bible mankind is portrayed as an unfaithful wife who is constantly whoring herself out. God is portrayed as a husband who would be justified in divorcing us but instead continues to sacrifice Himself in hopes that He will redeem us.

*And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
(Col 1:17 ESV)

**And they shall come back here in the fourth generation, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.”
(Gen 15:16 ESV) (This was 400 years before the wars of conquest. Those were 400 years of continued grace.)

    This is the seventh article I have written as part of an ongoing debate with Mr. Adrian Thysse on the reasonableness of Christian faith.  This is also the first of the 3rd generation of articles.    The second generation of articles were written as responses to Mr. Thysse’s comments on, The Faith of Reason.  This article is in response to a comment he made on one of those second generation articles. To make it easier to follow, I have cut his comment into sections and placed them in block quotes.

    It has been about a month since my last article and I know I promised to get back sooner.  I do apologize but, this is not the kind of blog that you read to hear about what I’ve been up to so I will not burden you with that.   I do intend to respond to all of Mr. Thysse’s points and for that matter I am also still planning to write an article on Jean-Jacques Rousseau.  I may write another article tomorrow, no promises though.

    I shall be responding to the last part of Mr. Thysse’s comment on Evil in Society.  It appears below.

Evolution neatly accounts for why we are universally horrified by the harming of infants.   -Mr. Thysse

    This is not the case according to Harvard evolutionary psychologist, Steven Pinker.   On November 2, 1997, Dr. Pinker published a now infamous article in the New York Times.  The title of the article was, Why They Kill Their Newborns.  In the article, Dr. Pinker lays out in no uncertain terms and quite convincingly, how the theory of evolution not only explains why, but predicts that women will occasionally kill their own newborn children.

“the emotional circuitry of mothers has evolved to cope with this uncertain process, so the baby killers turn out to be not moral monsters but nice, normal (and sometimes religious) young women.”

     This is in direct contradiction to Mr. Thyss’s statement.   One thing, (in this case, evolution) cannot be the explanation for opposites.  In a similar way opposites cannot both be used as evidence in the same argument.  An attorney would have to be insane to defend his client based on the premises that his client was both at the post office and at the pharmacy at the time of the crime.

    Mr. Thysse’s point that, evolution explains an abhorrence of harming infants and, Dr. Pinker’s point that evolution explains why young women kill their infants are obviously in direct opposition to one another.  Whether they are inferred from the theory of evolution, or used as support for the theory of evolution, a contradiction exists.

      My point in saying all of this is not to slam either Dr. Pinker or Mr. Thysse.  I am sure both of them could produce multiple sources and citations in support of their respective positions.  Dr. Pinker made the list of the 100 most influential intellectuals in the world, he’s a fairly authoritative source in his own right (and if you have been following this article series, you know that Mr. Thysse is better at finding citations and source material than I am.)  This does nothing however, for either of their cases.  Rather, the more source material they could both produce, the greater the depth of logical inconsistency in the Secular Humanist worldview.

    This debate originally centered on how reasonable the Christian worldview is and I admit that I have gotten a little off track with this article.  We will get back to Christianity, soon enough, but I felt that Mr. Thysse’s comment provided an opportunity to examine the reasonableness of Secular Humanism, one of Christianity’s chief rivals.  I expect comments on this one, so fire away!

    This is the sixth article I have written as part of an ongoing debate with Mr. Adrian Thysse on the reasonableness of Christian faith.  Mr. Thysse raised some very potent objections to Christianity in his response to my first article.  This is getting very good!  (and providing me with plenty of blog fodder) I’ll attempt to address his objections below.  Mr. Thysse’s full comment can be read on my first post in the series, The Faith of Reason.  To make it easier to follow, I have cut his comment into sections and placed them in block quotes.

3. The Bible makes it clear that God is not “pure good”. The OT claims He sent forth evil spirits, does it not? Therefore nothing to reconcile.

4. No need for Jesus Christ to lift the burden that He created himself.

I have searched through six or eight translations of the Old Testament and found nothing about God sending out evil spirits.  If you know what passage this is please tell me.  If I had to guess, I would say that this is a case of “evil spirits” being used figuratively.  The Bible is clear that God is not a cosmic Santa Clause,

    For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.”
    (Heb 12:6 ESV)

    The Old Testament is full of episodes in which Israel turns from God, God disciplines them (usually by famine or an invading army), they turn back to God, and He brings them out of whatever predicament they were in.  It is possible that one of these famines or armies was referred to as “evil spirits”.  This would not mean that evil had its source in God. 

Ultimately, your faith is not reasonable (I say this as an ex-Christian). You have faith because is ‘feels’ right for you, but there is no ultimate justification for it.

I am throughly enjoying this debate.  I hope I have been able to show you that I do indeed have justifications for my faith.  There is very little in the story of an innocent man being tortured and murdered in the most painful* and heinous way possible on my behalf that says “feel good.”  C. S. Lewis described himself upon converting from Atheism to Christianity as “the most reluctant convert in all of England.”  Yes, I am glad that the burden of sin in my life has been lifted and that I can be reconciled to God and fulfill my intended purpose but, Christianity was not created as a feel good religion.  It would be easy to create a religion that says that all evil is a societal construct,  if you wanted a feel good religion. 

    I was unaware that you (Mr. Thysse) were a former Christian.  If its not too bold of me to ask, what made you change your mind?  What do you think of Jesus now?

    As always, comment at will!
* The word excruciating was coined to describe the unique kind an amount of pain brought about by crucifixion.  In the Latin it literally means from the cross.

    This is the fifth article I have written as part of an ongoing debate with Mr. Adrian Thysse on the reasonableness of Christian faith.  Mr. Thysse raised some very potent objections to Christianity in his response to my first article.  This is getting very good!  (and providing me with plenty of blog fodder) I’ll attempt to address his objections below.  Mr. Thysse’s full comment can be read on my first post in the series, The Faith of Reason.  To make it easier to follow, I have cut his comment into sections and placed them in block quotes.

2. ‘Evil’ is a societal construct. It does not exist outside of how we define it.

It is true that many actions or inactions are deemed to be evil because of their societal implications.  For example, many cultures have strong traditions and not to observe the traditions would be taken as a malicious attack on the people and culture who hold those traditions. 

    In Japan, a business card is thought of as a representation of the person who gives it out, so there is much ritual in the exchange of business cards.  To take notes on the back of a business card would be very offensive in Japan, it would be seen as blatantly disrespectful to the person who gave it out.  In the United States, a business card is seen as a tool, you are free to do what you please with it. 

    Here in Texas, for a man not to hold the door open for a woman would be very rude.  If it was blatant enough, he would run the risk of being confronted about it, certainly if there were other men present.  To do the same thing in New York would probably go unnoticed. 

    These deeds are all deemed evil in their respective societies because of the implications they carry.  It is fine to write on a business card in the United States because there is no societal implication to it.  The shared implication that all these action-society combinations is mal-intent.   They are all perceived as actions calculated to do harm to innocents.  This is evil.  There may be other things that are evil as well but this is one of them that is universally offensive.  The intentional malicious harming of innocents is considered evil in Japan, Texas, New York, and Timbuktu.  It is not a societal construct.
Fire away with the comments!

    This is the fourth article I have written as part of an ongoing debate with Mr. Adrian Thysse on the reasonableness of Christian faith.  Mr. Thysse raised some very potent objections to Christianity in his response to my first article.  This is getting very good!  (and providing me with plenty of blog fodder) I’ll attempt to address his objections below.  Mr. Thysse’s full comment can be read on my first post in the series, The Faith of Reason.  To make it easier to follow, I have cut his comment into sections and placed them in block quotes.

As to your point that “…Christianity is ultimately reasonable…”:

1. God is not a good explanation for the beginning of the universe. We do try to answer the question, but the origins of the universe is not “a question that you must answer.” Science may not know, but it is more honest to say “We don’t know” then to ascribe it to a God. We are then still left with the question – who created God?

I’m sorry if I came across as “you personally must answer this question, now“.  I merely meant that the origin of the universe is a question to be contended with and that science is incapable of doing this. 

    I think it is more honest to say “we do not know” than to say that “there is no god” as in, the seven on the Dawkins Atheism scale.  There is also a difference in knowing something through deductive logic and knowing through inductive reasoning.  Almost if not, all that we know, we know through induction.  Interestingly, much more emphasis was placed on inductive logic throughout the classical, medieval , renaissance/reformation, and the enlightenment ages.  It is only in the last two-hundred years or so that deduction has eclipsed inductions as the primary means of proving something in philosophy.  But that was a rabbit trail.

    To ask “who created God” is to assume God was created.  The reason you might assume God was created is that we have no experience (baring “supernatural” experiences that some claim to have) with anything outside of nature.  In nature things have beginnings and ends, they are finite.  God is by definition infinite and outside of the scope of nature.  God is supernatural.  It is logically possible that God was created but it is not logically necessary. 

    This is why I believe that the universe must have been created.  It must have had a beginning in something outside of nature because nature by virtue of being natural and following certain natural laws, does not spontaneously create itself.  The big bang points to a finite beginning and some have theorized that there exists a never ending cycle of big bangs and big squishes leading to more big bangs.  This just leads us to an infinite regression of squish, bang, squish, bang, squish, bang, ad infinitum.  This cannot be a natural process because all natural processes have beginnings.  This leads us to a dilemma, either the universe and nature do not really exist at all, or they were created by something outside of nature, something supernatural.

    Admittedly this argument does not immediately lead to the conclusion that that supernatural universe starter was Jehovah, God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob.  It does however, lead to the conclusion that there is something other than nature.

    This is the third article I have written as part of an ongoing debate with Mr. Adrian Thysse on the reasonableness of Christian faith.  Mr. Thysse raised some very potent objections to Christianity in his response to my first article.  This is getting very good!  (and providing me with plenty of blog fodder) I’ll attempt to address his objections below.  Mr. Thysse’s full comment can be read on my first post in the series, The Faith of Reason.  To make it easier to follow, I have cut his comment into sections and placed them in block quotes.

To me the great fault of Christianity is that it condemns all those who do not accept Christ – even the new born. This is not reasonable. First your bible condemns you, then it tells you how to be saved. All unnecessary if it did not give a blanket condemnation to begin with.

    This begins to get a little bit confusing so bare with me.  Does the Bible say that we are condemned? Yes it does.  Does the Bible say that we can be reconciled to god (saved) through Jesus Christ?  Yes it does.  The Bible says both of these things but the Bible is not the cause of these things.  These would be true even without the Bible.  The Bible is merely a record of what is already true, not the cause of that truth. 

    I am unaware of any verse that says newborns who die are condemned.  If you have such a verse I would be very interested to see it.  As far as I know, the Bible is vague on what happens to newborns who die.  There are some who believe that they are condemned but this has to be extrapolated.  I believe that the Roman Catholic church has a doctrine that says unbaptized babies are condemned, but again that is not strictly Biblical. 

This is the second article I have written as part of an ongoing debate with Mr. Adrian Thysse on the reasonableness of Christian faith.  Mr. Thysse raised some very potent objections to Christianity in his response to my first article.  This is getting very good (and providing me with plenty of blog fodder)!  I’ll attempt to address his objections below.  Mr. Thysse’s full comment can be read on my first post in the series, The Faith of Reason.  To make it easier to follow, I have cut his comment into sections and placed them in block quotes. 

Thanks for your detailed response. Your initial assumptions are correct. However, my point in choosing that particular verse is not that I believe man is born with the burden of ’sin’. (Our ‘burden’ is perhaps a result of our mental ability to recognize our own evolved imperfections)

Hi, Mr. Thysse,

    If our mental ability evolved along with our imperfections, then how can it be capable of recognizing them?  Wouldn’t our mental ability view our imperfections not as imperfections, but rather simply as what is? 

    To see that we (humans) are imperfect is to presuppose perfection.  If we had no concept of what a straight line looked like then it would be meaningless to say “this is crooked“. 

    The burden that you speak of, is not just the knowledge that we are crooked but also that we should be straight.  Do you think that a wild dog feels ashamed when he gets into the trash?  No, of course not.  It is only a dog who has been domesticated and told many times not to get into the trash, who shows any sign of remorse for doing so (and they do).  Dogs have no burden of crookedness on their own, they get it from their leaders (be it an alpha male or a little girl). 

It was merely to point out the circular reasoning that Christians are prone to. The Bible tells you that you are born a sinner, therefore you need a saviour.

I would be the last person to argue that the modern Christian church is a bastion of logic and rationality.  There are very few such bastions left.  Modern education has done a fine job of seeing to that.  Subjects like rhetoric, logic, argumentation, and critical thinking are rarely taught at all and have even taken on pejorative connotations.  However, the failure of modern man to live up to the standards of rationality (there are those perfect standards again), does not mean Christianity fails those same standards.
 
   I do not need the Bible to tell me that I am a sinner, I have moral codes that I am incapable of living up too.  I fail my own test.  Also you do not need to be in a room of toddlers long to see that selfishness and conceit are present very early in life.  In this regard, the Bible merely confirms what I have already observed.

    I have not doubt that there are many people who examine their lives and find that they have lived up to their own moral code perfectly.  I believe these people are deceiving themselves.  They are not holding themselves to an objective standard.  They create their code of morality to suit their own actions.  In this way, they will necessarily look good when held to the standard of this code.  This is a sham code of morality.  They have a double standard, one for themselves and one for everyone else.  Ask everyone else what they think of this person and they will undoubtedly be able to find some faults.

    So, the Bible does not condemn anyone.  We can see that we are already condemned.  If we see that we do evil (as illustrated above) and that God is good (The being than which no greater being can be conceived) then, we are necessarily separated from him(condemned).  The overall message of the Bible is not one of condemnation but of reconciliation for a world already condemned.

    For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
    (Joh 3:17 ESV)

    The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly.
    (Joh 10:10 ESV)

    All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of     reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their     trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.
    (2Co 5:18-19 ESV)

Comment at will!

    A colleague of mine in the blogging world, Adrian Thysse commented on my last article, The Fifty-First Psalm in English Verse.  His comment brought up some interesting and very important questions facing the world today.  These questions are some of the key battlefields in the so called, culture wars.  I started to respond to Mr. Thysse’s comment with another comment but, it soon became too long and too divergent from the original article.  Mr. Thysse’s original comment appears below in full.

Adrian Thysse
June 30, 2008

“Behold, I in iniquity
Was formed the womb within;
My mother conceived me also,
In guiltiness and sin.

It is a heavy burden Christian’s bear, but self imposed.Doesn’t your passion for truth conflict with your faith? How do you keep them separate?

The first part is a direct quote from my post.  It is Psalm 51:5, in an English verse translation.  My response to the questions raised by Mr. Thysse is below.  In deciding how to respond, I found that moving in reverse order (of that in which the questions were posed) will work best. 

    How do I keep my faith and my passion for truth separate?  There is an underlying claim in this question and it is that, my faith is not also true.   I fully understand that Mr. Thysse is not a Christian and so, I expect him to believe Christianity to be false.  Also nothing should be taken dogmatically.  The more important an issue is, the more reason there is to test the conclusion.  Certainly world view and metaphysical beliefs are extremely important, and so should be subjected to the highest levels of scrutiny.  See my article, Pseudo-Polite Conversation, for more on my views on this.  

The unstated premises (I hope Mr. Thysse will forgive me for making assumptions) for this question are that,

• Christian faith is unreasonable and not supported by reason.
• I am a reasonable person (he says that I have a “passion for truth”) and yet am a Christian.
  
• The first and second premises contradict
  
• Therefore, I am either making a separation between faith and rationality (as Mr Thysse believes) or I am a walking contradiction.

    Now that I have spent two paragraphs expanding a six word question, I will get to answering it.  First I would like to thank Mr. Thysse for implying that I am a reasonable person.  Thanks.  I try my best to be reasonable and your ackowledgment of the fact means that we can conduct a civilized debate.

    Second, I do not keep them separate.  (Hey, a six word response!)  To do so would constitute a contradiction.  I can not love truth during the week and indulge in what I know to be fantasy on Sundays.  That would be literally and in all other ways, insane. 

    So, it appears that I have backed myself into a corner.  Mr. Thysse presented a dilemma, either I make a separation or I live a contradiction.  I have stated that to make a separation would be a contradiction.  So it appears that, I’m damned if I do and damned if I don’t.  I have already stated that I do not make a separation between my faith and my passion for truth.  I’ll now address the other option in the dilemma, namely that I am a walking contradiction.

    This, I do not accept.  I do not believe that a contradiction exists between my faith and my pursuit of truth.  (I suppose, I should be thankful to Mr. Thysse for assuming that I made a separation rather than asking “why are you a walking contradiction?”)  I find Christian faith to best explain the universe we live in.  That is to say, I find Christianity to be reasonable and rational. 

    We must dismiss completely, with the idea that metaphysical questions, (such as, what is ultimate reality, is there a god, what is the meaning of life,  and why is there evil?) are questions of science or that science could answer.  They are not.  These are not the sort of questions that scientists ask; nor are they the sort of questions that science answers.  If we found video footage of the last six billion (or 100 billion) years and could see the beginning of life and all the wars and famines in history, it would not tell us why there is evil, if there is a god, if he is active or passive, or if he is knowable or distant. 

    Science ( and mathematics, physics etc.)  is very useful but, it is limited.  Science can answer many questions but not questions of this sort.  I do not know if Mr. Thysse’s belief that Christianity is unreasonable is based on an adherence to science or not but, it is very common to believe that science is somehow at odds with faith, religion, and even philosophy.  It is not.  It cannot be.  Science being opposed to these things is like English muffins being opposed to purple.  If you believe in English muffins then you cannot believe in purple and the other way around.  It makes now sense at all.  You cannot even conceive of what it means for English muffins to oppose purple.  The same is true of science opposing faith.

    It seems that in the course of answering the question about separation, I have also answered the question, “doesn’t your passion for truth conflict with your faith?”  It does not.  My faith is based on what I believe to be true.  I believe it was Augustine who said that “all truth is God’s truth.”  This is what I believe.  If God exists, and I believe he does, then all honest search for truth whether molecular biology, astronomy, philosophy, or a criminal investigation, is a search for God.  This is true even when the searcher is not conscience of it or does not believe in God. However, when the search is not really about truth but rather about supporting a previously held position, then neither is it a search for God. 

    Now to respond to the first sentence in Mr. Thysse’s comment. 

It is a heavy burden Christian’s bear, but self imposed.

The burden is only self imposed if it is not true, but that is beside the point and not worth arguing about at the moment.  Mr. Thysse has made a very astute observation that most of the secular world does not recognize or at least, does not admit to recognizing.  Mr. Thysse has recognized the heavy burden.  Yes there is a heavy burden, but Christians do not bear it.  That is the essence of Christianity.  We have sinned, we are living outside of our original nature, we are God’s enemies but God in his love has extended his hand to us, so that we may become His children!  He has taken the burden from us!  We do not bear the burden because Jesus bore it on our behalf.  As Paul said,

“There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.”
Romans 8:1 English Standard Version. Underlining mine.

 Or even earlier in that same Psalm,

For your compassion great, blots out
All my iniquity.
Psalm 51:2 

And later,

With perfume do, you sprinkle me,
I shall be cleansed so;
Yes, wash me please, and then I will
Be whiter than new snow!
Psalm 51:7

Or as Jesus Himself said,

“Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.  Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.  For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.“ 
Mathew 11:28-30 English Standard Version. Underlining mine.

This is Why Christianity is ultimately reasonable and rational.

• It explains where the universe came from, God created it.  This is a question that you must answer no matter what you believe about old Earth creationism, young Earth creationism, intelligent design, evolution, the big bang, panspermia, or any other theory out there.
• It accepts the existence of evil as evil. (as does Islam and some other religions)
• It reconciles men who do evil with God, (Islam does not) who is pure good and has nothing to do with evil. 
  
• This is accomplished through Jesus Christ.  This is the lifting of the burden.

Looking back, I’m glad that I made an article out of this instead of a comment.  I hope this is useful to Mr. Thysse and anyone else out there with similar questions.  I gladly accept comments and criticism especially from Mr. Thysse.  Please don’t hesitate to comment, anyone, this is a debate after all. 

Below is my rendition of Psalm 51 in English verse. The Psalms were originally written as poetry. I understand the need for accuracy in translations but I believe we lose so much when the aesthetic aspect of the verse is given such low priority. As always, comments, critiques, and charges of heresy are welcomed.

After your loving-kindness, Lord,
Have mercy upon me!
For your compassion great, blots out
All my iniquity.

Cleanse me from sin, and throughly wash
Off my depravity!
For my transgressions I confess;
My sin I ever see.

‘Gainst you, you alone, have I sinned,
In your sight done this ill;
That when you speak you may be just,
And clear in judging still.

Behold, I in iniquity
Was formed the womb within;
My mother conceived me also,
In guiltiness and sin.

With pure truth, you are delighted.
You see the hidden part.
And wisdom you shall cause me know,
Within my inner heart.

With perfume do, you sprinkle me,
I shall be cleansed so;
Yes, wash me please, and then I will
Be whiter than new snow!

Of merriment and joyfulness
Cause me to hear the voice;
So that these very bones which you
Have broken, might rejoice.

All my iniquities blot out,
Hide your face from my sin.
My Lord, a pure heart create, give
Me a right spirit within!

Cast me not from your sight, nor take
Your Holy Spirit away!
Restore me thy salvation’s joy;
May my spirit willing, stay.

Then will I teach your ways unto
Those that transgressions do;
And those that sinners are, will then
Turn their eyes unto you.

From guilt of shedding blood, free me,
Lord of my redemption!
Loosed at last; loud shall my tongue sing,
God, of your salvation!

My sealed lips, O Lord, by you
Let them be wide opened;
Then shall your praises by my mouth
Be broadly loud proclaimed.

For you desire not sacrifice,
Nor does burnt offering;
Supply you with good pleasure, were
It so, I’d bring these things.
(And bring them with good measure!)

A broken spirit is to God
The pleasing sacrifice:
A broken and repentant heart,
Lord, you will not despise.

Show favor, and do good, O Lord,
To Zion, your delight.
The walls of your Jerusalem
Build up as you see right.

Then, in just offerings you’ll please,
And offerings burnt, they
With whole bulls and young calves
Will on your alter lay.

Another debate that has been going for some time along similar lines, is what is the best English translation of the Bible. I have no sympathy of opinion with the King James only camp. This is a ludicrous and logically defenseless position, the King James Bible has existed for around one quarter of the history of Christianity and a tiny fraction of the history of Judaism. While there is some debate about the original source language of the Bible, the language of Jesus, the apostles, and the profits, no one claims that they spoke Shakespearean English. The King James Bible contains as much a translation of the Gospel of Luke, as the Gospel of Luke contains a translation of the words of Jesus, and is as much a translation of the Bible as Eugene Patterson’s, The Message.

Children who are fortunate enough to grow up in a Christian home, first read story Bibles. These story Bibles do not even claim to be accurate translations. They’re written to be accessible and intelligible to children. They are illustrated for the same reason and they serve their purpose well. Children think like children and story Bibles are on their level. This is appropriate. The most accurate translation in the world, would be of no use to someone who is illiterate, they would be better served by murals on a wall. In the same way, people who have little comprehension, because they’re young, either in days or in faith are better served by an easy-to-read paraphrase than a super literal translation. Children should not say children forever, they should move from milk to meat. They should be constantly challenging themselves and being challenged by the community. It can be nearly impossible to do in-depth verse studies with a loose paraphrase. And so moving to a more literal translation becomes a necessity.

If you want to know the story of the Aeneid, then there are many great translations, if however you want to read Virgil’s poetry. Then you must learn Latin, for poetry translates very poorly. In the same manner, it is most profitable for Christians as they grow to graduate from literal translations to reading Greek and Hebrew. As one progresses from story Bible, to paraphrase to literal translation, there’s no reason to stop growing just because you can comprehend the ESV . The next logical step is to learn the source languages. Today, however, it is very rare for any layman to attempt to learn Greek let alone Hebrew.